Fla. doctor investigated in badly botched abortion
Three days later, she sat in a reclining chair, medicated to dilate her cervix and otherwise get her ready for the procedure.
Only Renelique didn't arrive in time. According to Williams and the Florida Department of Health, she went into labor and delivered a live baby girl.
What Williams and the Health Department say happened next has shocked people on both sides of the abortion debate: One of the clinic's owners, who has no medical license, cut the infant's umbilical cord. Williams says the woman placed the baby in a plastic biohazard bag and threw it out.
Police recovered the decomposing remains in a cardboard box a week later after getting anonymous tips.
It's scary how many Christians voted for, and are idolizing Obama.
I know, seriously. If only people had known before election day that Obama is an unethical physician who botches medical procedures.
ReplyDeleteObama is for abortions. He even failed to vote against late term abortions, which are totally sick.
ReplyDeleteI saw a stat that African American women get five times the abortions per capita that white women get. It's like voluntary genocide.
I know! And nearly half of the people executed in the US in 2008 were black, while blacks only represent 13% of the population. That's like real genocide!
ReplyDeleteYou're right. Babies and death row murderers are the same thing.
ReplyDeleteI think we should add abortion to state senators.
ReplyDeleteLet's also add: racism, school prayer, evolution and Iraq to the list of things not to debate because we've either had the debate or the debate is hopeless.
If you've read Freakenomics they make the case that Liberals should be pro-Life because abortion basically kills off newborns who would most likely become Liberal and therefore increase there voting influence.
"It's scary how many Christians voted for, and are idolizing Obama."
ReplyDeleteSo you agree that Christian's shouldn't think for themselves? Is it not scary for non-Christian's to support Obama?
Abortion is the dumbest debate we could possible have, here is why:
ReplyDelete1) No one is going to change their feelings on it
2) It is something that effects the lives of very few people
3) We are men
I have very strong opinions on this, so maybe we have hot button issue days, Like say March 23rd is raise holy hell about abortion day. Otherwise lets not get in heated debates about this.
I'm not interested in extending the abortion debate either. But I was really curious why Jay singled out Christians here, considering he is agnostic or even atheist.
ReplyDeleteI agree that we shouldn't have the abortion debate for similar reasons Michael, most importantly I'm not a woman. I have my opinions, but they don't mean shit because I don't have a vagina.
ReplyDeleteOn that note, why aren't there any woman on this blog?
I'm really bothered by most of Jame's comments. I know you're trying to make a point and you probably enjoy intense reaction to your comments, so instead of concentrating on what I find objectionable about your language I'd really like to try and get to the bottom of the issues that underlie your opinions.
I should probably start a whole new thread about this. Basically here's my deal. If we were God and we were trying to create a world/society sim-city style, I bet we would make it pretty similar. I'm a libertarian, let people have their guns, individual rights and make them take responsibility for their actions. Sound good so far? We might have some disagreements, but for the most part I bet our ideal societies look pretty similar.
Now, we don't live in that ideal society that I wish I could magically create from scratch. I personally struggle to reconcile my ideals with the reality of the world we live in. That is why I hate the idea of affirmative action for example, but I still support it (I wish there was something better, and I'd be open to suggestions)
I hate the idea of bailing out ANYONE with taxpayer money, and I definitely don't like some of the spending in the bailout bill, but I do think the government needs to take some action.
I think all drugs should be legal. However, I think we'd all agree that there would be problems if there was across the board legalization.
I think anyone should be able to have whatever weapons they want because they should be responsible enough to use them safely and not intrude on others rights. However, I am for reasonable gun control because that is not the case.
I'm against socialized health care because I don't believe it's the government's job to keep us healthy, but I do support medicare.
Some might think that's a cop-out and a compromise of my ideals. It may be.
The alternative is to believe that a society with largely unequal populations will become equal over time without government assistance.
The bottom line is that we shouldn't have a society where everyone is equal, fuck-ups should be allowed to be fuck-ups, but many people are disadvantaged not because they lack self-control or discipline, but simply because of the color of their skin, or their sexual orientation, or their religion, etc.
So here's my questions. Do you acknowledge we have a problem with inequality? Do you think the government should do something about it? If not, do you think the problem with fix itself over time? If not, do you think that's OK?
-Matt
I don't think certain topics should be off limits.
ReplyDelete"So you agree that Christians shouldn't think for themselves? Is it not scary for non-Christian's to support Obama?" - Christians believe in not killing people. Babies are considered people, by Christians, from the moment of conception. If you don't believe me, ask a pastor.
There isn't a medical moment in time when the fetus becomes a person. The calendar doesn't click over into the 20th week, and go BOOM now it's a person. It's a person from the moment it starts developing.
"but many people are disadvantaged not because they lack self-control or discipline, but simply because of the color of their skin, or their sexual orientation, or their religion, etc."
ReplyDeleteBoo fucking hoo. In the United States you can be successful no matter what the color of your skin is or if you take it up the ass.
"Do you acknowledge we have a problem with inequality? Do you think the government should do something about it? If not, do you think the problem with fix itself over time? If not, do you think that's OK?"
If your parents fuck you up because they smoke crack and drink 40s on the porch every day, blame your parents. Don't blame society or the white man.
I do not think the government should "do anything" about inequality. Obama is president. The civil rights movement is over. Mission accomplished. Now STFU and get a job.
"The civil rights movement is over. Mission accomplished. Now STFU and get a job."
ReplyDeleteA-fucking-men.
Let's go through a brief recap of what blacks have achieved in this country:
- President
- Sec of State
- Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
- Head of the Republican Party
- Supreme Court
- Senator
- Americas best mayor
- Governor
- Pulitzer prize
- Fortune 500 CEO's
- Oscars, grammys, tony's etc
- Super Bowl winning coach (2)
- World Series winning Manger
- Greatest American golfer
- Greatest American tennis player
- Football, baseball, basketball
- Soccer
About the only area I can see that African Americans needing greater influence is NCAA head coaching positions.
Blacks HAVE achieved in America, there is no reason to continue fighting... and just like everyone else in this country they should STFU and get a job. Stop bitching about why and how you got to your station life and start focusing on how to change it.
I wish Barack would set an example to African Americans by saying "STFU, look what I did bitches! Anything is possible in America, STFU and go to work"
And again... I post a serious topic about Caesar Hugo Chavez and no response... but post about abortion or Obama criticism and look out!
ReplyDeleteI understand where both of you are coming from, but I think you're sidestepping around some major issues.
ReplyDeleteMichael, your list of Black achievements is great, but all that proves is that black people are mentally and physically equal to everyone else. We've known that for a long time, that was never a debate in any rational persons mind.
However, if you look at statistics blacks, Hispanics, and other minorities are not achieving at a rate comparable to the majority, they compromise a much larger population of our prisons and there are a hundred other statistics in which they are not doing as well.
Right now I don't want to debate what should be done about this (in terms of government action) because you guys think nothing should be done. That's fine for the moment, but there is a conflict in your arguments that I can't get over.
If blacks (and lets say other minorities as well) are as capable and have opportunities to success just like anyone else, why are these statistics so?
From your comments it's because "parents fuck you up because they smoke crack and drink 40s on the porch every day"
Ok, so we're all equal except black people have a genetically greater propensity to drink 40's and smoke crack?
"Blacks HAVE achieved in America, there is no reason to continue fighting..."
so there is no reason to continue fighting, but..
"Stop bitching about why and how you got to your station life and start focusing on how to change it."
So they are disadvantaged and they should focus on how to change that, but don't worry about why, the civil rights movement is over and they should stop fighting, right, that makes tons of sense.
"I wish Barack would set an example to African Americans by saying "STFU, look what I did bitches! Anything is possible in America, STFU and go to work""
Michael, I absolutely agree with that, and I think that is exactly the effect Obama is having. He's a huge role model for african-americans, ask any african american.
"Right now I don't want to debate what should be done about this"
ReplyDeleteDear god, thank you.
" I think that is exactly the effect Obama is having"
See I don't think so. I don't see people (black or otherwise) lining up willing to make sacrifices and I don't see Barack asking people to make them. Quite the opposite. I see Barack blaming Wall Street and Republicans for the state of the union. That is partisan and patently wrong (again, debate for another time).
I heard a great description of Barack right now: He is in campaign mode.
Listen to him, he is. He is not acting like the leader of the country he is acting like the leader of a party.
"but all that proves is that black people are mentally and physically equal to everyone else. We've known that for a long time, that was never a debate in any rational persons mind."
ReplyDeleteHa.
Blacks are physically equal to whites? That must explain why sports are dominated equally by whites and blacks. Oh wait...
I can think of several "rational people" who believe there are physical and mental differences between the races. How about James Watson, the nobel prize winning scientist who discovered the structure of DNA and the mechanism for the reproduction of hereditary traits?
But that guy doesn't know jack about heredity, right.
It's naive to believe that there are not differences between the races. At one point in history we were all the same, but after hundreds of thousands of years of geographic isolation we developed many differences.
If you took 1000 Indian-American samples, and 1000 African-American samples, which group do you think would be physically superior? And which mentally superior? I think it's pretty obvious.
I personally believe that intelligence is more nurture than nature, but there is definitely a nature component of some sort.
I happen to mostly agree with Jay here.
ReplyDeleteRaces have developed independently for hundreds of thousands of years, certainly long enough for evolutionary changes to be felt. Races have only begun to integrate over the past 1,000 years. There are clearly differences in people that are still genetically diverse.
Certainly there are exceptions, certainly there are standouts that are the exceptions to this, but on average differences exist. 3 point shooting and assists happens to favor white people, but the rest is debatable.
I personally believe that intelligence is more nurture than nature, but there is definitely a nature component of some sort.
ReplyDeleteIt's hard to argue that.